Winding back to the major interview from June last year with yoko from noodles
for CINRA. What's interesting and unusual: the occasion for the interview is the
release of
Metaltic Nocturne from noodles, but most of the focus is on the two
women as bandleaders and role models — practically elder statesmen.
It's pretty long. Still worth the effort, because Naoko will open up to an interviewer
when she's not on tour. If you narrow up your browser window, it'll be easier to read.
I left it Japanese-y to the point of awkward, but not too awkward. I hope.
Exchange of gifts: Yoko is a high-volume hand knitter of homemade show merch.
More than once she's given Shonen Knife bargello pouches for portable Nintendo
players and so on.
I had a conversation with Naoko-san at CINRA today. It was fun talking about
various things. I was thrilled to receive travel souvenirs from Osaka and America. noodles × Shonen Knife, talking about the differences
between male bands and female bands
noodles Metaltic Nocturne 2017 JUN 21 by Staff for CINRA.net
www.cinra.net/interview/201706-noodlesshonenknife Interview/Text: Takakami Kuroda
Photography: Takuya Nagamine
Editor: Aiko Iijima
Special PR FeatureCINRA's photo, one of several shot outdoors against the wall of a buildingがむしゃらに成功を求めない
マイペースに好きを突き詰める姿勢を探る
Not hell-bent on seeking success
Exploring with the attitude of pursuing what you like at your own pace Having celebrated the 25th anniversary of their formation last year, two and a half years after their previous work the 3-piece women's band noodles have released the original album
Metaltic Nocturne.
Pop melodies with influences from 1950s-era oldies through girl-group pop; a heavy and solid guitar sound passed down from 1990s grunge/alternative; and yoko's cute, cool vocals (which owe nothing to anyone) as strong as ever, the dignity that has been a guidepost for girls' bands for a quarter-century shows through.
Speaking of dignitaries whom such girls never cease to honor, there's Shonen Knife. Formed in 1981, having gotten a lot of respect from such charismatic foreign rock bands as Nirvana, they're a great band that continues to be active both at home and abroad up to the present.
We set up a conversation between noodles/yoko and Shonen Knife/Naoko about the many things that the women's trios have in common, such as actively working overseas. While browsing through
Metaltic Nocturne, they told us about episodes from abroad, secrets of continued long-term activity, and the differences between male and female bands.
The two women's flexible way of living is sure to be a useful reference for men as well.
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It's that our theme is, "We want to make music not as women, not as men, but as human beings." (yoko) 〜〜〜〜〜
― You two have been acquainted since when, approximately?yoko: Five or six years ago I invited Shonen Knife to an event we were planning, which was the trigger. Of course I had known of Shonen Knife since the time we formed noodles. I was thinking I'd like to do it all along, for nearly 20 years.
― Theirs was a longed-for presence… yoko: That's right. To us, Shonen Knife felt like "foreign celebrities",
① we were longing for their entire existence. I mean, it's because our theme is, "We want to make music not as women, not as men, but as human beings." I thought bands like that were not very popular in Japan, but Shonen Knife had become just that sort of band.
Naoko: Although with Shonen Knife, I'm doing a band without thinking of anything in particular like a theme (laughs). I love noodles because they feel like Western music. I mean, as far as things like the scales of the melodies, and putting in English phrases, it's a completely different conception from other Japanese bands. Add to that, I really like it a lot when bands have only women, so in that sense I was wondering about them even before.
― What does "the scales of the melodies" mean specifically? ②Naoko: Recently, the melodies of bands that are popular in Japan are all pretty much alike. A "bam-bam-bam" rhythm with many full beats [ per measure ], before they go to the hook a texture comes in (laughs), a high falsetto singing voice comes in. There's a kind of format, I think. But by sticking to doing music the way they want to do it, noodles avoid falling into the format, that's what I like.
yoko: I'm happy [ to hear it ]. My roots are oldies, old-time American music. Rather than something fashionable, melodies that are heartbreaking — with distortion but nostalgic, I wanted to make music like that.
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If you add even one man to the mix, it's no good (lol). (Naoko) 〜〜〜〜〜
― Naoko-san's favorites are bands that only have women. Naoko: Because if you add even one man to the mix, it's no good (laughs). Myself in particular, I seem to have a gut liking for Japanese female vocals. It might be differences in bone structure, or kawaii-ness, but their vocal production is a little different from Westerners, don't you think?
― Is this sort of preference of Naoko-san's the reason why Shonen Knife is all women? Naoko: In our case, it's that a band made up of females only is convenient in various ways. On tour there's no problem about being together in a hotel room, the topics of conversation between women are more fun. It's really only that. Nevertheless, playing a long time in a "women-only band", we've gotten a lot of interest from various people, so I guess let's just keep doing as we have done, with only women playing (laughs).
yoko: For us, the fact is there was no big to-do at all about, "Let's have a girl band!" It just happened to be all women at the part-time job where we got together. Now there are lots of girl bands, but in those days they were scarce. Even if there was an aspect of advantage to that, it hurt us. We were told, "bookings are difficult."
Naoko: Really! For Shonen Knife it was nothing but an advantage. Women-only was a novelty, we got invited to live shows from our first formation. Even overseas, an "all-girl band" was interesting and it was easy to book I guess. So until our major debut, getting bookings was something I didn't think about on my own.
― About that, there might also be differences between Kansai and Kanto [ the Northeast, especially Tokyo ].
Naoko: Oh, I don't doubt that there are.
yoko: Huh, are there?
Naoko: Kanto people are fashion-conscious, I think, they choose their formats and styles with great care. Kansai is Kansai, but if I had to say, people from Kyoto seem to be the same way, while in Osaka people are all realists (laughs). In addition, taking everything into consideration, there's a feeling like, "It's all right as long as it's efficient" versus "Would it be all right as long as it's amusing?"
③ Even though you could say it's a bit romanticized, I wonder if there aren't such differences. The members of noodles are all fashionable, white-skinned beauties.
④
― All: (laughter).Naoko: At the opposite pole, I'm somewhat dark-skinned, but from the aspect of being influenced by Western music I think we're extremely similar.
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In contrast with male bands, girls can't do a band as "work". (yoko)〜〜〜〜〜
― Also, I feel that the relationships among members are subtly different between male bands and female bands.
Naoko: Especially since noodles have been together ever since their formation. I think that's completely different from Shonen Knife, whose members have changed. I think going on together all the way is a wonderful thing.
yoko: That's by happenstance, surely? Nevertheless, it's as much as to say that, in contrast to the surrounding male bands, girls can't do a band as "work". The most basic part is being "friends". If they're not, I think it will turn out that they can't keep going. What's more, ourselves, we've never had a quarrel. We don't get overheated, it might also be that we're a little more "dry" than the men.
⑤ I wonder if that's why we're good at getting along……?
Naoko: For example, in the situation with men, there are two common cases, one where there is a single strong leader, and that person seizes the initiative, and the case of a complete divided-labor system where you're responsible for your own job.
In noodles' situation, since originally they were starting out from a place as mutual friends at their former job, relationships and roles might not be so tight. Not interfering with each other, doing it because it's fun to be together, that kind of thing? Woman-to-woman, I feel that there is an aspect like that.
yoko: That's definitely true. Things like not interfering, the aspect of respecting each other's freedom.
Naoko: In Shonen Knife the members have changed. I'm playing with a girl who's like a daughter at my age, so the relationship is a bit different still. Given that her value system and world are totally different, talking with her turns out to be an incredible stimulus, and I also learn what's interesting to young kids now.
― As to the band, no matter how far apart you are in years, when you put the notes together that place where relationships completely disappear is nice, isn't it?Naoko: That's right. We're equals on stage, in the moment of making music with that member the age difference disappears completely.
yoko: In that sense there is no leader of noodles, either. Because we intend for all three to be equals, it might be that this has been going on for a long time. We don't have a lot of discussions for one thing, we've come this far on tacit understandings.
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The easy-going aspect might be the secret to lasting a long time. (Naoko)
〜〜〜〜〜
― Even so, noodles have been active for 25 years and Shonen Knife for over 35 years. Where do you think the motivation lies, to keep going the whole time?yoko: When we formed noodles, the motivation was, "We want to go to a major [ label ]!" There was no such dream as, "We want to be on TV!". Something like, "We want to play big halls," yes, of course — there was a terrific appetite for success.
However, we were being told by people around us, "Take it completely at your own pace, you're absolutely not craving big success, I hope?" All along I thought, "And yet, really, I am ambitious."
Naoko: About that, you don't seem like you're voracious, everyone in noodles feels refined. Because you're slender white beauties.
④yoko: (laughs). But with us the form changed little by little as we went along. Instead of the hell-bent "I want to succeed!", a feeling like "Let's write even one good song out of many in a lifetime, I'd like for even one person out of many to hear it." gradually grew stronger. Doing what you want to do is long-term, so "success alone isn't everything."
― How is that for Shonen Knife? Naoko: In our case, because at bottom I'm a lazy person, if I'm left alone I'll be lazy under any circumstances. Every day there are lots of things to do, it's a feeling of just get it done somehow. When it comes to doing tours, there's the back-and-forth with agents, considering t-shirt designs, we have to work out how to be profitable for ourselves. I don't have a lot of spare time to think about it slowly at my own pace, right?
So, as for recording, since the schedule is decided, it just becomes "you can't not do it" (laughs).
⑥ Once I have a studio reservation, thinking "Oh, I already have a reservation," I finish off the songs. If there were no deadline, I think I'd play games and play tennis without writing songs. In that respect, speaking of men, even without a deadline I feel there are a lot of people that would say, "I keep on writing songs every day!"
― Often I listen to people's stories thinking "If you don't cultivate, how will you be able to produce?" ⑦Nako: I think about that side of it in an even more relaxed way. The easy-going aspect might be the secret to lasting a long time. It probably is — with women it isn't "Music alone is everything!" I feel there are plenty of other enjoyable things besides music. When I looked at yoko-san's blog, she's been doing fingernails, she's been doing needlework. Earlier she gave me a hand-knitted case to hold [ guitar ] strings, she's enjoying doing hobbies like that on the side.
yoko: That's true (laughs).
Naoko: Men are obsessive, getting fixated to the point of abnormality on cars and musical instruments. But for women, cars and musical instruments are only means to an end, there comes a point of saying, "It's fine as long as the color and the design are cute," you know? I wonder if the difference between men and women isn't like that.
― Positively. It's not only bandmen, there are a lot of men who tend to get depressed when they reach retirement age. And I thought it might be easier for them to turn their attention to other places, listening to the stories from the two of you. Outside of the band, is Naoko-san absorbed in tennis now? Naoko: That's right! Although I'm
mecha-mecha poor at it, nevertheless my dream is to be a pro tennis player (laughs).
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If there were no Shonen Knife, we never would have considered expanding overseas. (Yoko)〜〜〜〜〜
― Shonen Knife and noodles have activity abroad in common. Originally, when you thought of going overseas, the impetus was…?
Naoko: The situation with Shonen Knife was, in the beginning I didn't consider it at all, because I thought something like expanding overseas was impossible. But someone from the American K Records, who happened to come to Japan, bought a title we released in Japan on a minor label called Zero Records. The impetus was, he sent us a letter at the address that was written on it, and our interaction started from there.
― What did you do about the language barrier?Naoko: In the beginning, I didn't understand English as well as I do now. At one time I was in the English language department at a junior college, in the course of speaking it I improved a little at a time. The biggest thing was that, going into the 1990s, we came out on an American major [ label ]. Many days, I did 5 or 6 interviews a day. If you do that, in a month you get about as much as in a year of English conversation school (laughs).
yoko: Ourselves, if there were no Shonen Knife, we never would have considered expanding overseas. I think that was so for most of the bands in Japan. I should say that both the United States and Britain are countries of aspiration to the very last. But, thanks to Shonen Knife, it was "Oh — right, we can do shows over there too!"
One more thing that was a big impetus to go abroad, in 2003 we got to play on the undercard of The Breeders whom I loved. We were told at the time, "Please come overseas," by the Breeders members. At the time it seemed as if, "We really could go." So then, to start with we entered "CMJ" (College Media Journal. In the American music information media, it's known as a music chart alongside Billboard.) and by participating in that event we made our way overseas.
Naoko: That was New York?
yoko: That's right. In those days a lot of Japanese bands were going abroad, and wherever we went the local people told us, "We know Shonen Knife". I think it was thanks to Shonen Knife that they had gotten to the point of thinking, "A Japanese band, they might be cool, let's go see them."
Naoko: We played live together with The Breeders too. 1993 I think. At that time Nirvana was going all over America with 3 bands. Kurt Cobain-shi was watching from the wing of the stage every day. So we talked about various things, he was a
mecha-mecha nice and kind person.
yoko: Amazing!
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When you accumulate a certain amount of life experience, I suppose "heartbreakingness" naturally seeps in more than in your younger years. (Naoko)〜〜〜〜〜
― How did Naoko-san find noodles' new album Metaltic Nocturne? ⑧Naoko: Every song is good, it's a cozy album all in all. "Metaltic Nocturne" is of course the lead track, so its impression lingered, and "Twins Tree" as well, the
metallophone sound is effective, and the Japanese lyrics are terrific making it a cute and addictive song.
― On the present work, everything seems like a love song and yet not a love song. The "you" that comes out in the lyrics is something like a lover, or it might be like a family member, or conceivably like a friend. That side I thought intriguing as well. yoko: That's right. Sometimes "you" is yourself. In other words, there are a lot of lyrics that are like addressing yourself.
Naoko: In the case of Shonen Knife, unlike noodles, romantic love or what's in my heart is embarrassing. I can't write about it, you know. So basically there are a lot of songs about food and animals. In the early days when I first formed the band, because I like sweets I was singing songs about things like chocolate. However, all the sweet things have been used up already (laughs), [ so ] lately I've switched to songs about things like ramen and wasabi.
―(laughs). How did they react to lyrics like that overseas?Naoko: Since I'm singing about simple things, I thought they'd be "easy-to-comprehend". The tour supporting the latest album "Adventure" was entitled the "Ramen Adventure US Tour". We also played the song "Ramen Rock" recorded for a previous album, it was a big hit with audiences. In America, there's a huge ramen boom. During the tour we collaborated with local ramen shops, introduced shops on our blog, had lotteries at the shops where we gave away Shonen Knife tickets.
― Really! A boom to the extent of putting up ramen restaurants everywhere. Naoko: Yes, they're slightly different from Japanese noodles, but delicious on the whole. I'm not telling you a ramen story, it's a Shonen Knife "I can't write heartbreaking song lyrics" story (laughs). For that reason, I think it's amazing yoko-san can write lyrics like that.
yoko: Regarding the content of the lyrics, there's something I want to express that's never changed in the whole time since the time we started the band, and that is heartbreaking-ness.
⑨ I completely love heartbreaking lyrics and heartbreaking melodies, honestly, I keep doing them consistently.
At the beginning though, they weren't all that heartbreaking. There I was, madly collecting phrases that feel heartbreaking, and in some ways it was sort of a lie. Now, I think they're turning out to feel heartbreaking even though I'm just singing about real things that have been made into song lyrics.
Naoko: Yeah, when you accumulate a certain amount of life experience, I suppose "heartbreakingness" naturally seeps in more than in your younger years. This has become a heartbreaking feeling for real. My chest got tight.
Yoko made Naoko choke up with her middle-aged
musings about heartache, and that's where they left it!
① Gaitare-san外タレさん is an abbreviation of 外国人タレント,
Gaikokujin talento. Non-Japanese Celebrities are in a class by themselves, they're exempt from the usual rules. The remark about longing for Shonen Knife's whole existence... I think means wanting to be them.
② MERODĪ no onkaiLike the interviewer, I don't see what Naoko is trying to say with her "scales of the melodies". Naoko uses "melodies" the way we use "tunes", to stand for entire songs. She can't mean that the J-pop hit parade isn't full of western diatonic music.
③ Kanto versus KansaiIt's hard to believe yoko is hearing this for the first time. But plenty of native New Yorkers are not very aware of how they're seen by the rest of the US.
④ Danshi yori DORAIna"Drier" than men: women are more practical than men and less likely to let their emotions run away with them. Probably true, for grownups.
⑤ Iro shiroishi, hosoishi bijinThis:
http://instagr.am/p/BWvvHhhl0mi
Slender white beauties: Naoko's gets two laughs from one tease of yoko, haha only serious. Porcelain skin has been envied for centuries. If I could just make my skin tone lighter! Is there a lotion?!! You bet there is, click here to purchase.
⑥ Yarana AKAN やらなアカン "no use not doing", Kansai slang for やらなければならない (
yaranakereba naranai), meaning
you've got to do something (not doing it is not allowed).
⑦ Tsukutteinai to, tsukurenaku natte shimau node wanai ka?"If you don't cultivate, how will you be able to produce?" You can't go on extracting product unless you maintain and renew the source. A pithy saying in Japanese, because just one verb,
tsukuru, is used for farming as well as building and manufacturing. It's all productive activity, so the proverb sounds like "How do you expect to have produce if you don't produce it?"
⑧ Dono you ni kikaremashita ka?
"How did you hear it?" works the same as asking "how did you find it?" or "how did you see it?", meaning what was your impression, judgment or experience of something.
⑨ Setsuna-sa"Heartbreaking-ness", noun form of the adjective
setsunai — heartwrenching, piercing, oppressive, painfully sad. Yoko's preferred term for what she's going for in a noodles song.