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Post by mikado-AKA-Shoknifeman on Aug 22, 2012 22:36:15 GMT -5
I just recently bought this album and I'd like to share my thoughts. I LOVE this album. It has a little bit of everything! I've been listening to it a lot. But the artwork on the inside is HORRIBLE! Seriously, who designed this? I'm not going to comment on every song, but here's what I think: "Brown Mushrooms" is my favorite song on the album. Before I owned it, I listened to it all the time on YouTube. I'm not even sure why I like it so much. Maybe it's the sound of the guitar. I also really love "Concrete Animals"! "Little Tree" is darling. It seems like the lyrics could be the words in a picture book! "Tomato Head" is great, but I find it hilarious because Naoko is so serious about it! And then there's "Music Square". For some reason, I have a feeling that when Naoko retires or dies, I will be crying my eyes out whenever I hear this. There's just something about it. It's a great way to end the album! Thanks for your thoughts, Jaicee; that's the cool thing about this being a forum, we can ALL review the albums or comment on my reviews, it's all good!
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Post by thegl0r on Dec 15, 2014 21:16:17 GMT -5
I still haven't managed to get my hands on the Japanese release of this album, but I have got the American (Virgin 1993) CD version that Mikado reviewed, and I've also got the UK (Creation Records 1994) version on vinyl. I've also got another version of a CD that a friend burnt for me, but he didn't tell me which one it is. The only song I've deliberately compared is Concrete Animals. For a start the running times are all different! Virgin 4.30 long, Creation 4.37, the other one is 4.50 long. The Creation version and the mystery version both have an extra verse in the song, between the two chorus repeats at the end of the Virgin version. The mixes are rather different, I have a sneaking suspicion that the vinyl version is just they mystery one speeded up with no pitch correction, but I really ought to investigate further. Or does someone out there already know? Generally speaking I prefer the version(s) with the extra verse.
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Post by tangerinesun on Dec 16, 2014 2:20:39 GMT -5
I have only the 1993 Virgin America edition, with the ~04:30 edit of "Concrete Animals".
I see that there was a 1994(?) re-release both in America and UK, and the CD had a suspicious "V2" designation (V2 7243 8 39063 2 1). Relying on discogs.com, here, at my peril. But maybe 1994 was when the label regretted taking a razor blade to Naoko, and restored the deleted verse.
I can understand, but not approve, the edit.
The last verse makes a kind of abrupt left turn, so you could take the position that it weakens the song and ought to be removed. Or, you could say it's the actual payload of the song, and shortening summarily neutered the original recording. If the long version came out after the shortened one, safe to say somebody didn't ask somebody if it was OK to tamper.
I'd be really surprised if the LP was just "speeded up" nearly 5% by a mastering engineer, unless it was done to correct a technical problem with the original recording that was recognized too late. Analog mastering guys have never been ones to toy around with fidelity, it makes work hard to find.
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Post by thegl0r on Dec 16, 2014 22:18:08 GMT -5
It has been said that SK's relationship with Virgin wasn't the best of ones, so who knows what really happened there. I think that the "extra" verse in Concrete Animals which is missing in some versions of the song adds more to the song, and also gives it a more positive vibe. Naoko has already said in verse 1 that Concrete Animals get vandalised and (spray?) painted many colours. In verse 2 she says that they're too heavy to carry and get taken home (after a night of sushi and saki?) But if they have been moved in the night, it's because the concrete animals have had a secret party and were dancing and didn't quite find it back to their "right" daytime places to wait for the children. Then the final verse says that the Concrete Animals are there to make the children happy and if they get vandalised, " dirty and dangerous", then the kids will have nowhere to play. So its an anti-vandalism song. Here's one potential "technical problem" for the vinyl release. Side 1 of the Creation vinyl release is 26.18 long. The more usual length of music on a side of a vinyl album is about 22 minutes or so, but that can be pushed a bit using high-tech kit. I just checked some pressing plant websites and they seem to go with 22 minutes. It's a bit difficult to compare this length with the CD releases as both of them have got differing amounts of silence at the end of the tracks. And investigating into that is getting a bit too train-spotter for this time of night. Hmm, (deep in thought whilst stroking my beard in a effort to appear intelligent) the original Japanese release didn't include Quavers as the first song on the album. so... But one thing I have noticed is that the silence on the CDs between the end of the last song at the end of "side 1" (Tomato Head) and the beginning of the first song of "side 2" (Another Day) seems to be about twice as long as the silence between other songs on both of the CD releases that I've got. SK performed Concrete Animals at a fair few gigs in the UK this year, and I quickly checked a few of the occasions on YT. The two that I spotted both have the "short" version of this song. At gigs, I always wonder which version it will be that SK will play. Here's the two that I found from this year.
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Post by tangerinesun on Dec 17, 2014 0:13:47 GMT -5
It has been said that SK's relationship with Virgin wasn't the best of ones, so who knows what really happened there. I think that the "extra" verse in Concrete Animals which is missing in some versions of the song adds more to the song, and also gives it a more positive vibe. Naoko has already said in verse 1 that Concrete Animals get vandalised and (spray?) painted many colours. In verse 2 she says that they're too heavy to carry and get taken home (after a night of sushi and saki?) But if they have been moved in the night, it's because the concrete animals have had a secret party and were dancing and didn't quite find it back to their "right" daytime places to wait for the children. Then the final verse says that the Concrete Animals are there to make the children happy and if they get vandalised, " dirty and dangerous", then the kids will have nowhere to play. So its an anti-vandalism song. Here's one potential "technical problem" for the vinyl release. Side 1 of the Creation vinyl release is 26.18 long. The more usual length of music on a side of a vinyl album is about 22 minutes or so, but that can be pushed a bit using high-tech kit. I just checked some pressing plant websites and they seem to go with 22 minutes. It's a bit difficult to compare this length with the CD releases as both of them have got differing amounts of silence at the end of the tracks. And investigating into that is getting a bit too train-spotter for this time of night. Hmm, (deep in thought whilst stroking my beard in a effort to appear intelligent) the original Japanese release didn't include Quavers as the first song on the album. so... But one thing I have noticed is that the silence on the CDs between the end of the last song at the end of "side 1" (Tomato Head) and the beginning of the first song of "side 2" (Another Day) seems to be about twice as long as the silence between other songs on both of the CD releases that I've got. . I took the extra verse as a serious-sounding plea for Citizens for Sanitary Parks to go take a hike and let the filthy, dangerous, fun animals alone. The pause between tracks on a disk-at-once tracked, Red Book compliant, audio CD is two seconds. You get that automatically when you specify silence between tracks. Even Track 1 is preceded by a 2 sec silence. It's not two elapsed seconds of no-sound out of your total time budget, like for an analogue medium, unless you want more than 2 seconds' interval. If you want less than 2 sec, you also have to spend a few bits on really playing silence, because technically there's actually none, the tracks are head to tail and one of them has a bit of zero amplitude. 12" RIAA LPs have a total playing time of 45 minutes or less, counting both sides, but you can cheat. The best way is to cut the spiral tighter, which you can do if you make the whole recording a lot softer. But it sucks for your quality. I used to need to know things like these. What's it all mean? I DON'T KNOW!!!! It's Old Ben driving the 5:20 again, he's always so sparing of the whistle, that one.
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Post by thegl0r on Dec 17, 2014 10:34:35 GMT -5
The pause between tracks on a disk-at-once tracked, Red Book compliant, audio CD is two seconds. You get that automatically when you specify silence between tracks. Even Track 1 is preceded by a 2 sec silence. It's not two elapsed seconds of no-sound out of your total time budget, like for an analogue medium, unless you want more than 2 seconds' interval. If you want less than 2 sec, you also have to spend a few bits on really playing silence, because technically there's actually none, the tracks are head to tail and one of them has a bit of zero amplitude. 12" RIAA LPs have a total playing time of 45 minutes or less, counting both sides, but you can cheat. The best way is to cut the spiral tighter, which you can do if you make the whole recording a lot softer. But it sucks for your quality. I used to need to know things like these. What's it all mean? I DON'T KNOW!!!! When I put together CDs for myself, (such as transfers from vinyl or tape) I usually go with the Red Book standard - but not always, sometimes it doesn't sound "right". Actually I did get all train-spotter and paid some attention to see if the effective intervals between the tracks on the CDs were Red Book compliant 2 second gaps - they're not, especially my mystery CD. (I must try and find out which release it is.) I may be barking mad, but there really is silence recorded on the ends of tracks and not the same length of silence for each track. The interval of silence between the final final notes fading out at end of Tomato Head and the first sounds of Concrete Animals on my Virgin CD is just under 4 seconds, and on the other (mystery) CD it is about 6 seconds. Yep, sometimes I get all side 1 / side 2 spotter with CDs - even if there isn't a side 2! I guess I've got too much vinyl in me, I still miss having something to turn over. Sure, many artists get creative with the gaps on records and CDs. The never ending "final" groove at the end of a record, or the first couple of seconds mastered in such a way to make you think you've put the record on at the wrong speed. The "hidden" track on a CD which plays after many minutes of silence when the "last" song has finished. And what about the gap between "Fortune Cookie" and "Like a Cat" on Overdrive? There isn't one - the songs just morph from one into the other as if SK were doing the two songs live on stage. I have seen them performing those songs just like that. Not very Red Book and its the same way on the vinyl release... One thing that is "interesting" is that the frequency response of the recording on vinyl changes with needle speed - the needle is travelling faster towards the outside edge of the record than it is travelling when nearer the centre of the disk. This can make the choice of first and last tracks on a side of vinyl more of a technical decision, rather than a purely artistic one. Extra music time on vinyl is somewhat more involved than just cutting the spiral tighter and also making the recording quieter, frequency response and dynamic range may also need reducing to hide the echoes from the other side of the groove. But when this has been done with music for vinyl, it's often a poor compromise. I've owned records that won't play, or wear out very quickly because they've tried to cram too much music onto a side, and the groove is so narrow and so shallow that no alterations of set up to the tone arm will work, even with a new needle installed. I've still got one particular record in my collection that I've kept in the vain hope that one day I'll get access to a laser record player. And what do all these musings mean? Um, beats me, but its all exercise for the fingers!!! p.s. I've just found out that my "mystery" CD is, like my vinyl release, a copy of the 1993 release on Creation/August cat no RUST009 CD.
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Post by mikado-AKA-Shoknifeman on Dec 17, 2014 14:21:13 GMT -5
That missing verse from Concrete animals, completely changes the mood of the song from a happy romp, to a plea for conservation; sad that it was removed from my version of the CD.
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Post by tangerinesun on Dec 18, 2014 7:56:25 GMT -5
That missing verse from Concrete animals, completely changes the mood of the song from a happy romp, to a plea for conservation; sad that it was removed from my version of the CD. The band might agree about the mood change, if they are sticking with the short version for live dates. Sometimes the surgeon is right, but I don't want the long form to be forgotten...
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Post by mikado-AKA-Shoknifeman on Dec 18, 2014 19:17:43 GMT -5
That missing verse from Concrete animals, completely changes the mood of the song from a happy romp, to a plea for conservation; sad that it was removed from my version of the CD. The band might agree about the mood change, if they are sticking with the short version for live dates. Sometimes the surgeon is right, but I don't want the long form to be forgotten... but then again, they might be using the short version, because that is the one the fans KNOW.
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Post by tangerinesun on Dec 18, 2014 22:16:00 GMT -5
but then again, they might be using the short version, because that is the one the fans KNOW. I know... only too true. This is what happens. One starts out a simple-minded, besotted fan and by degrees becomes like a medieval theologian. There's no cure and no help but to enjoy it.
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Post by thegl0r on Dec 19, 2014 5:25:01 GMT -5
but then again, they might be using the short version, because that is the one the fans KNOW. I know... only too true. This is what happens. One starts out a simple-minded, besotted fan and by degrees becomes like a medieval theologian. There's no cure and no help but to enjoy it. It may be that SK are playing the version of Concrete Animals that most of the fans will know, but I'm fairly convinced that I've heard SK playing both versions of this song, but that may well have been on different tours. I guess that for any given tour it would be easier and safer for them to just rehearse one version of the song so that when on stage, there's less chance of someone slipping into the wrong version. There may be members of the Church of The Knife who prefer one version of this song over the other version. But they are wrong in their heretical beliefs and shall be made to answer for their mistakes before the SK Inquisition *. No one expects the SK Inquisition! The wrong-thinkers will be shown the error of their ways and be forced encouraged to recant and to atone for their mistakes or be forever shunned by the true believers of righteousness. For it has been sung from on high that both versions of the song are wonderful. But the long one's better... * Apologies to Monty Python, they didn't expect this. www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt0Y39eMvpI
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Post by mikado-AKA-Shoknifeman on Dec 19, 2014 11:15:37 GMT -5
I know... only too true. This is what happens. One starts out a simple-minded, besotted fan and by degrees becomes like a medieval theologian. There's no cure and no help but to enjoy it. It may be that SK are playing the version of Concrete Animals that most of the fans will know, but I'm fairly convinced that I've heard SK playing both versions of this song, but that may well have been on different tours. I guess that for any given tour it would be easier and safer for them to just rehearse one version of the song so that when on stage, there's less chance of someone slipping into the wrong version. There may be members of the Church of The Knife who prefer one version of this song over the other version. But they are wrong in their heretical beliefs and shall be made to answer for their mistakes before the SK Inquisition *. No one expects the SK Inquisition! The wrong-thinkers will be shown the error of their ways and be forced encouraged to recant and to atone for their mistakes or be forever shunned by the true believers of righteousness. For it has been sung from on high that both versions of the song are wonderful. But the long one's better... * Apologies to Monty Python, they didn't expect this. www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt0Y39eMvpILove it! Where did you come up with that pic?
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Post by thegl0r on Dec 20, 2014 13:20:11 GMT -5
Love it! Where did you come up with that pic? I'm afraid that I stole it off the net. I'd done a search for pics of Monty Python doing the "Spanish Inquisition sketch" with the intention of working something up then I quickly found that someone had already done something even more suitable - and they'd even included the quote that I'd been intending to use but just needing a slight alteration to get it reading how I wanted it. The only changes I make was to replace a few words with "SK", "Spanish" got replaced on the first line and "the Pope" got replaced towards the end. Kinda lazy, but it worked. Hmm, SK replacing the Pope...
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Post by ljerk on Dec 21, 2014 16:28:23 GMT -5
Michael Palin jump from Japan ..... > ---> ----> to Hungary and give me old cassette with Shonen Knife video.
Unfortunately, concrete cat (Palin's cat) eat end of cassette at Concrete Animals. Info in YouTube page.
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Post by tangerinesun on Dec 22, 2014 1:22:41 GMT -5
Wow wow wow, I'm so glad to see this! Naoko with the old black Rick, headbanging in her shoulder-length, good-girl hairdo. And everybody in their dark sleeveless jumpers with Robin Hood collars. And the crowd pogoing like they're stuck together with velcro. It's a little too bad Diane Arbus could not have seen the setup for that studio interview, in which the TV has the role of that guy at the bar who will *not* shut up.
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